{"id":635,"date":"2012-09-09T02:23:56","date_gmt":"2012-09-09T00:23:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/wordpress\/?p=635"},"modified":"2012-09-09T02:24:14","modified_gmt":"2012-09-09T00:24:14","slug":"waiting-6-hours-after-challa","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/?p=635","title":{"rendered":"Waiting 6 Hours after Challa?"},"content":{"rendered":"

The Sefer <\/em><\/span><\/span>Maadanei\u00a0HaShulchan<\/span><\/strong> writes that if one warms <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em> on top of the <\/span>Cholent<\/span><\/em> pot, it becomes <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> to the point where if one would eat a slice of the <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em>, he would be required to refrain from <\/span>Milchigs<\/span><\/em> for 6 hours. Let\u2019s analyze this surprising ruling.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It is a well known Halacha<\/em><\/span><\/span>\u00a0that after consuming meat one must wait 6 hours before dairy foods. The primary issue at hand is how to define which <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> foods incur this restriction. Clearly, one who consumes actual meat, such as a steak etc., cannot afterwards eat dairy. Furthermore, the <\/span>Shulchan <\/span><\/strong>Aruch<\/span><\/strong> in <\/span>Yoreh\u00a0Deah\u00a0Siman<\/span><\/em> 89:3 describes a second category of meaty foods, called <\/span>Tavshil\u00a0Shel Basar<\/span><\/em>. <\/span>Tosafos<\/span><\/strong> on the <\/span>Gemara <\/span><\/strong>Chullin<\/span><\/em>\u00a0105b interprets this \u201c<\/span>Tavshil<\/span><\/em>\u201d as a dish that merely contains a meaty flavor, but without any substance. This meat-containing dish is certainly <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> in the sense that it cannot be combined directly with milk nor can cheese be eaten immediate after it, but according to the <\/span>Gemara<\/span><\/strong> it may immediately precede a <\/span>Tavshil\u00a0Shel Gvina<\/span><\/em>. Nevertheless, the <\/span>Rema<\/span><\/strong> there concludes that the current <\/span>Minhag<\/span><\/em>, which he strongly endorses, is to treat a <\/span>Tavshil\u00a0Shel Basar<\/span><\/em>\u00a0as identical to meat itself, and require a full 6 hours before any dairy products.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

However, he continues that there is a third category on which both the Halacha<\/em><\/span><\/span> and <\/span>Minhag<\/span><\/em> provide no grounds for stricture. When a <\/span>Pareve<\/span><\/em> food was cooked in a <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> pot, there is no need to wait before consuming <\/span>MIlchigs<\/span><\/em>.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The Shach<\/strong><\/span><\/span> \u00a719 observes that this case requires clarification. If we are discussing a spotlessly clean vessel where the sole concern is imparting a meaty flavor into the <\/span>Pareve<\/span><\/em> dish, the resultant food would be permitted to eat even in combination with milk due to the <\/span>Halachos<\/span><\/em> of <\/span>Nat Bar Nat<\/span><\/em>. Since clearly the <\/span>Rema<\/span><\/strong> intends to distinguish between foods that may be eaten together and those which require a full 6 hour delay, we must interpret this situation as one where the formerly <\/span>Pareve<\/span><\/em> food would not be permitted to be combined with dairy and nevertheless does not incur a needed delay. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Consequently, the Shach<\/strong><\/span><\/span> concludes that we must be dealing with a pot that was not thoroughly cleaned and remains with <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> reside on its walls. Since there is some minimal substance of meat in the resultant food, it would only be permitted immediately prior to dairy, but not together with it. A number of <\/span>Acharonim<\/span><\/em> observe that if the meaty residue would be less than 1\/60<\/span><\/span>th<\/span><\/sup>\u00a0of the final stew, nothing would have been accomplished by interpreting it as a dirty pot. Such a minimal quantity of residue is Halachically insignificant and the resultant dish would remain permitted even with milk. Obviously, the <\/span>Shach\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> intent is that the greasy remnant is greater than 1\/60<\/span><\/span>th<\/span><\/sup> of the final product.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The question arises, how is this circumstance substantially different than that of the Tavshil\u00a0Shel Basar<\/em><\/span><\/span> which we concluded does require a delay? What is the difference between a concoction to which a minimal amount of meat was added directly and one where it dissolved into the food during the cooking process?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The Beis Meir<\/strong><\/span><\/span> and <\/span>Rabbi Akiva Eiger<\/span><\/strong> disagree with the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong> altogether and restrict the <\/span>Rema\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> leniency as dealing exclusively with a situation where the pot is spotlessly clean. They avoid the issue of <\/span>Nat Bar Nat<\/span><\/em> by interpreting the new item being cooked as being an extremely spicy one that is capable of drawing full-fledged flavor from the pot and avoiding the dispensation of <\/span>Nat Bar Nat<\/span><\/em>, similar to cutting an onion with a <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> knife. However, this is an extremely narrow definition of the <\/span>Rema<\/span><\/strong>, and not at all implied in his words. Furthermore, it completely rejects the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong>, which we wish to attempt to avoid.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The Pischei\u00a0Teshuva<\/strong><\/span><\/span> initially seems to accept the <\/span>Shach\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> ruling, with the understanding that the intention is irrelevant. Therefore, he reached the conclusion that the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0would rule equally leniently regarding the addition of a small quantity of schmaltz. He does not quantify how much is the maximum he understands the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong> as permitting, but certainly his understanding is that the quantity is the sole critical factor. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

However, the Pischei\u00a0Teshuva<\/strong><\/span><\/span> also quotes the <\/span>Beis\u00a0Lechem\u00a0Yehuda<\/span><\/strong> as ruling stringently when the meat imparts a substantial flavor to the mixture. He clearly understands the threshold of this \u201csubstantial\u201d taste as equivalent to the typical proportion of 1\/60, and assumes that this is not compatible with the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong>. The implication is that his conclusion leans towards favoring the <\/span>Beis\u00a0Lechem\u00a0Yehuda<\/span><\/strong>. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The Yad\u00a0Yehuda<\/strong><\/span><\/span> explains the logic of the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong> as being dependent upon intent. He suggests that the <\/span>Rema\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> leniency of an unwashed pot is only applicable due to the absence of any interest in the meaty flavor incidentally imparted. A <\/span>Tavshil\u00a0Shel Basar<\/span><\/em> was only included in the obligation of waiting due to a <\/span>Lo Plug<\/span><\/em> caused by its classification as a meat dish. When the <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> component was unintended, the product is not called meaty and is not included in the original prohibition.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

According to this interpretation, there should be no grounds for stringency on our Challos<\/em><\/span><\/span>, as there was no intention to flavor them. They were only placed upon the <\/span>Cholent<\/span><\/em> pot for convenience, not due to any specific desire for the taste.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The Yad\u00a0Yehuda<\/strong><\/span><\/span> himself disagrees with the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong> as he understands him. In his personal opinion the intention should not be a significant factor. Rather, he suggests splitting the threshold of imparting flavors into two distinct categories. The <\/span>Ran<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0explains the source of the adage that foods impart taste up to 60x their volume as based on the maximum ratio defined by a rather strong flavored radish. While he concedes that most combinations will be indiscernible at a much lower ratio, 10 to 20 times their volume; <\/span>Chazal<\/span><\/strong> did not differentiate and enjoined us to always suspect the maximum. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Furthermore, in Siman<\/em><\/span><\/span> 98 the <\/span>Rema<\/span><\/strong> rules that while the precise defining factor is the actual perception of taste and not a numeric ratio, in practice we will not rely upon the tasting of the item to determine whether this exists. The <\/span>Yad\u00a0Yehuda<\/span><\/strong> proposes that while this is true regarding eating mixtures of meat and dairy together, when the sole issue is consecutive consumption we will rely on the observed lack of taste.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Consequently, he interprets the Rema<\/strong><\/span><\/span> as differentiating between the addition, intentional or incidental, of a quantity of <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> substance which is discernible and is classified as a <\/span>Tavshil\u00a0Shel Basar<\/span><\/em> requiring 6 hours, and an imperceptible but not less than 1\/60 proportion which may not be eaten together but does not require a significant interval either. According to this understanding as well, our <\/span>Challos<\/span><\/em> presumably do not receive a significantly perceptible meat flavor from being merely placed upon the lid of<\/span>\u00a0 <\/span>a <\/span>Cholent<\/span><\/em> pot, and should not require a 6 hour delay.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The Maadanei\u00a0HaShulchan<\/strong><\/span><\/span> based his stringent ruling on the assumption that the accepted <\/span>Halacha<\/span><\/em> does not allow for any leniency when we lack 60x the meat in the total mixture. Since we know from <\/span>Siman<\/span><\/em> 92 that steam rising off of a cooking food transfers flavor and that this taste is not impeded by the walls and lid of the pot, we will assume that some of the meaty flavor of the <\/span>Cholent<\/span><\/em> is imparted to the <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em> above it. The <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em> undoubtedly is not that much larger than the <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> portion of the <\/span>Cholent<\/span><\/em>, and if 60x is required, it is not likely to be present. He bases this primarily upon the aforementioned <\/span>Beis <\/span><\/strong>Lechem\u00a0Yehuda<\/span><\/strong>, and other Acharonim who require the meaty taste to be a nullified minority, which he interprets as requiring 60x. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

However, according to the Yad\u00a0Yehuda<\/strong><\/span><\/span>, it is not necessary to have a typical 60x to effect <\/span>Bitul<\/span><\/em>, as long as the taste is not actually perceptible.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

In truth, I don\u2019t think the Shach<\/strong><\/span><\/span> himself would disagree with this distinction. While the <\/span>Shach<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0undoubtedly does not require a preponderance of 60x to render the stew non-<\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> for the purposes of waiting, I see no indication that he would be lenient up to 49% as the <\/span>Pischei\u00a0Teshuva<\/span><\/strong> seems to imply. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Actually, the language of the Beis\u00a0Lechem\u00a0Yehuda<\/strong><\/span><\/span> is not consistent with disagreeing with the <\/span>Shach\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> ruling as the <\/span>Pischei\u00a0Teshuva<\/span><\/strong> understood. Rather, his implication is that he agrees with the general principle, and merely limits the permissible quantity of flavor that can be imparted to an imperceptible amount. This could easily be consistent with the other <\/span>Achronim<\/span><\/em> the <\/span>Maadanei\u00a0HaShulchan<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0cites as well; when they require a \u201cnullified minority\u201d there is no imperative that this refers to 60x and not merely becoming indistinguishable. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Furthermore, by my accounting the overwhelming majority of Poskim<\/em><\/span><\/span> do accept the <\/span>Shach\u2019s<\/span><\/strong> understanding that the pot need not be clean, which logically compels us to accept even more than 1\/60<\/span><\/span>th<\/span><\/sup> of residue. This includes the <\/span>Bach<\/span><\/strong>, <\/span>Toras\u00a0Asham<\/span><\/strong>, <\/span>Minchas\u00a0Yaakov<\/span><\/strong>, <\/span>Chochmas Adam<\/span><\/strong>, <\/span>Yad Avraham<\/span><\/strong>, <\/span>Aruch\u00a0HaShulchan<\/span><\/strong> and <\/span>Igros Moshe<\/span><\/strong>.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Consequently, it is my fervent opinion that while a Challa<\/em><\/span><\/span> heated directly on the lid of a <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> pot does become <\/span>Fleishig<\/span><\/em> itself regarding the restriction against eating it directly together with dairy products. Nevertheless, if one eats the <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em> alone, he need not wait 6 hours before consuming <\/span>Milchigs<\/span><\/em>. Nevertheless, there is a simple solution that will remove any doubts by wrapping the <\/span>Challa<\/span><\/em> first in aluminum foil, and this would render it permissible even according to the <\/span>Maadanei\u00a0HaShulchan<\/span><\/strong>.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

There is an additional issue here that the flavor as it travels through the lid of the pot should become Nat Bar Nat<\/em><\/span><\/span> which would not be an issue immediately prior to dairy, or even with it. The <\/span>Maadanei <\/span><\/strong>HaShulchan<\/span><\/strong> is assuming we should be stringent for the <\/span>Chavos Daas\u2019<\/span><\/strong> opinion that the leniency of <\/span>Nat <\/span><\/em>Bar Nat<\/span><\/em> does not apply when both transfers of flavor occur simultaneously. A further discussion of this point is beyond the scope of this article.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The Sefer Maadanei\u00a0HaShulchan writes that if one warms Challa on top of the Cholent pot, it becomes Fleishig to the point where if one would eat a slice of the Challa, he would be required to refrain from Milchigs for … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"gallery","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[4],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-635","post","type-post","status-publish","format-gallery","hentry","category-halacha-kashrus","post_format-post-format-gallery"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p2z7Yb-af","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/635","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=635"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/635\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=635"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=635"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/shaareihoraah.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=635"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}